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I have a ton of experience using OBDEleven on the MQB vehicles including data logging to back my assertions vs. "feel"; some of these "performance mods" are 100% placebo.

On the steering - "dynamic" is the same you get with "sport" so you can get this same steering feel if you have 4Motion and by just setting your mode to sport or choosing custom and setting steering to sport so you have this 100% of the time.

Torque limit/starting vibration reduction - in the Atlas this will do zero as it's large and you likely aren't stomping on it from lights; even then, I'd argue this will do little unless you have fwd.

The "increased traction" mod for the Haldex, I saw no difference when I logged it. Your Haldex pump engages based on throttle so as you give it gas, it is engaging. My post #118 with data logs. You can just watch it's activity using "live data" in OBDEleven and see exactly how/when it works. He is simply wrong/doesn't know what he is talking about:


The "direct throttle" mod is completely bogus. Only way to achieve what folks think they are getting is a pedal tuner box. My post #79 summarizes the thread but good info throughout include data logs of this setting and using a pedal tuner box. Also good video showing what this change actually does. People thing it works therefore they feel it work - they are pushing the pedal harder:


 

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I've had mine in sport mode since day one, just curious how noticeable is the steering difference when not in sport mode? Is there only the 2 steering settings available? Any detailed specs on specific ratio changes?
 

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I've had mine in sport mode since day one, just curious how noticeable is the steering difference when not in sport mode? Is there only the 2 steering settings available? Any detailed specs on specific ratio changes?
Why not just switch it and see for yourself? I think it's a small difference. No detailed specs.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have a ton of experience using OBDEleven on the MQB vehicles including data logging to back my assertions vs. "feel"; some of these "performance mods" are 100% placebo.

On the steering - "dynamic" is the same you get with "sport" so you can get this same steering feel if you have 4Motion and by just setting your mode to sport or choosing custom and setting steering to sport so you have this 100% of the time.

Torque limit/starting vibration reduction - in the Atlas this will do zero as it's large and you likely aren't stomping on it from lights; even then, I'd argue this will do little unless you have fwd.

The "increased traction" mod for the Haldex, I saw no difference when I logged it. Your Haldex pump engages based on throttle so as you give it gas, it is engaging. My post #118 with data logs. You can just watch it's activity using "live data" in OBDEleven and see exactly how/when it works. He is simply wrong/doesn't know what he is talking about:


The "direct throttle" mod is completely bogus. Only way to achieve what folks think they are getting is a pedal tuner box. My post #79 summarizes the thread but good info throughout include data logs of this setting and using a pedal tuner box. Also good video showing what this change actually does. People thing it works therefore they feel it work - they are pushing the pedal harder:


Here's my take on your long winded input;

1) Steering - The dynamic option sets your steering to sport mode permanently. That is the point of this coding change, to NOT have to choose Sport mode in order to have the sport steering settings but to have it ON all the time.

2)Torque Limitation - definitely an option that makes sense for FWD but 4 motion behaves like FWD until tries loose traction. As a former GLI owner with full bolt-ons I can say this was an important option to disable, it did allow more wheel spin but that could be addressed with other mods. On the Atlas it will do little since the SUV is heavier but like you said, it will work and it DOES work if you stomp the gas so it comes n handy on certain situations.

3) Haldex- Seems you are mixed up with the idea of a haldex tune vs. the haldex coding for increased traction setting. The increased traction option has the haldex engaging sooner according to driver throttle demand so the car behaves more like AWD rather than FWD up until front tires loose traction. Haldex tunes work with tweaking how much torque goes to front vs. rear and some other stuff that is not even relevant here. Not sure you will see any change in data logging since the power/torque distribution is untouched.

4) Direct pedal feel - Again, seems you are confusing this with a mod when it really is just a coding parameter that changes the feel of the gas pedal and makes it less laggy. The amount of said change is may not be much but again I'm not sure how data logging would capture this coding change at all.

In conclusion let me reiterate, I don't think any of these changes can be captured with data logging since major software inputs in the software are untouched, the only change occurs in coding parameters within the existing factory software. This is not the same as when you install an engine, DSG or haldex tunes which in fact have substantial changes that will indeed be captured by logging data.

Additionally there will always be the eternal opinion based battle of whether these changes are detectable or not but the statement that these changes are 100% placebo is not accurate.
 

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Long winded? It’s an online forum…if you want short bits, try the Facebook groups.

I suggest that you take the time and read through the two forum posts I linked – the data are there for you with lots of great info based on logging. Based your comments, I don’t think you had a look.

I am fully aware of the differences between the United Haldex tune and ECU flash tunes etc. vs. OBDEleven/VCDS “tweaks”; my 4Motion Sportwagen is tuned and “FBO” as well. No confusion here.

On the steering, yes, I understand that the tweak makes it permanent; I have that setting enabled on my Sportwagen b/c it’s a base model without the modes. On the 4Motion Atlas with driving modes, seems silly to remove the ability to change it with the settings.

On the Haldex, you can log the pump’s activity as well as torque transfer AND time – so you can see all the parameters that this could be impacting. Again, look at the link, I have them side by side, there is no difference. The person in the video makes it sound like there is a delay; you can watch the pump’s activity live and it reacts instantly to your pedal input…more gas, more torque transfer. There are other settings I’ve worked with another person with an R that is heavy into tracking his ride based on the various info available out on the interwebs – lots of those settings in the AWD control unit (both long coding and adaptations) appear to be related to noise and my take is that the settings change the amount of engagement while coasting just based on the wording used…”acoustic”, “suppress anti-droning action”, “anti-impact”, “anti-hum”. I've done lots of launches in my wagon using Dragy so the data are dead-on accurate; zero difference between "increased traction" and stock. My best 0-60 and 1/4 mile times have all been with all the common "performance" VCDS changes in their stock settings.

On the driving profile switchover to direct, controlled over threshold vs. the stock incremental, controlled over time settings, did you watch the YouTube video I linked? It actually shows you live what that does. It changes the time it takes when you switch modes from sport/drive for the steering to change over, that’s it. Why would it also somehow impact the throttle feel permantely? I’ve logged them both w/r to time and accelerator position, and throttle position and thrown up what a pedal tuner box does – this is doing nothing. If I did a blind test I bet there would be no correlation OR I could get the same feeling response by the driver by just telling them I made a change to give it a more direct/linear feeling but change nothing. How can a pedal box be able to clearly show what it is changing w/r to throttle feel (more switch output for the same amount of pedal input vs. stock) in my logs but this change doesn't? You literally log the physical position of the pedal and the electrical output of the accelerator switch...what else could it be changing? I even logged driver torque demand for some. All in that thread.

The other interesting things with the Haldex and “driving profile switchover” aka “direct throttle” tweaks are that if you spend the time, like lots of time, reading the forums, FB groups, etc. you get all sorts of different descriptions of what these do based on feel/butt dyno. How is that possible? They should only do one thing and it should be the same for everyone, like an ECU tune adding power. It’s b/c it’s completely subjective with no data and just based on folks thinking they are doing XYZ when in fact nobody knows exactly what some of these are doing and folks just keep passing these around without questioning them.

The beauty of science/testing is that it doesn’t rely on someone’s subjective feelings about changes.
 

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Why not just switch it and see for yourself? I think it's a small difference. No detailed specs.
When I first changed to the sport mode it was for the change in shifting, which makes a noticeable difference, but I was unaware of the steering being effected. I agree KarstGeo, the change must be small, to the point that I don't sense any change at all after switching out of sport. Maybe I need to try more driving conditions to be sure.
 

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When I first changed to the sport mode it was for the change in shifting, which makes a noticeable difference, but I was unaware of the steering being effected. I agree KarstGeo, the change must be small, to the point that I don't sense any change at all after switching out of sport. Maybe I need to try more driving conditions to be sure.
Are you just pulling the shifter back to get the trans into sport mode (which doesn't impact steering) or are you selecting sport mode from the drive mode selector on the center console (4Motion vehicles only)? That adjusts the steering.
 

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When changing back I was changing both the shifter and 4Motion sport option. I will check this out again, doing only the sport position on the 4Motion selection. Maybe I was expecting a much bigger change.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Long winded? It’s an online forum…if you want short bits, try the Facebook groups.

I suggest that you take the time and read through the two forum posts I linked – the data are there for you with lots of great info based on logging. Based your comments, I don’t think you had a look.

I am fully aware of the differences between the United Haldex tune and ECU flash tunes etc. vs. OBDEleven/VCDS “tweaks”; my 4Motion Sportwagen is tuned and “FBO” as well. No confusion here.

On the steering, yes, I understand that the tweak makes it permanent; I have that setting enabled on my Sportwagen b/c it’s a base model without the modes. On the 4Motion Atlas with driving modes, seems silly to remove the ability to change it with the settings.

On the Haldex, you can log the pump’s activity as well as torque transfer AND time – so you can see all the parameters that this could be impacting. Again, look at the link, I have them side by side, there is no difference. The person in the video makes it sound like there is a delay; you can watch the pump’s activity live and it reacts instantly to your pedal input…more gas, more torque transfer. There are other settings I’ve worked with another person with an R that is heavy into tracking his ride based on the various info available out on the interwebs – lots of those settings in the AWD control unit (both long coding and adaptations) appear to be related to noise and my take is that the settings change the amount of engagement while coasting just based on the wording used…”acoustic”, “suppress anti-droning action”, “anti-impact”, “anti-hum”. I've done lots of launches in my wagon using Dragy so the data are dead-on accurate; zero difference between "increased traction" and stock. My best 0-60 and 1/4 mile times have all been with all the common "performance" VCDS changes in their stock settings.

On the driving profile switchover to direct, controlled over threshold vs. the stock incremental, controlled over time settings, did you watch the YouTube video I linked? It actually shows you live what that does. It changes the time it takes when you switch modes from sport/drive for the steering to change over, that’s it. Why would it also somehow impact the throttle feel permantely? I’ve logged them both w/r to time and accelerator position, and throttle position and thrown up what a pedal tuner box does – this is doing nothing. If I did a blind test I bet there would be no correlation OR I could get the same feeling response by the driver by just telling them I made a change to give it a more direct/linear feeling but change nothing. How can a pedal box be able to clearly show what it is changing w/r to throttle feel (more switch output for the same amount of pedal input vs. stock) in my logs but this change doesn't? You literally log the physical position of the pedal and the electrical output of the accelerator switch...what else could it be changing? I even logged driver torque demand for some. All in that thread.

The other interesting things with the Haldex and “driving profile switchover” aka “direct throttle” tweaks are that if you spend the time, like lots of time, reading the forums, FB groups, etc. you get all sorts of different descriptions of what these do based on feel/butt dyno. How is that possible? They should only do one thing and it should be the same for everyone, like an ECU tune adding power. It’s b/c it’s completely subjective with no data and just based on folks thinking they are doing XYZ when in fact nobody knows exactly what some of these are doing and folks just keep passing these around without questioning them.

The beauty of science/testing is that it doesn’t rely on someone’s subjective feelings about changes.
I might have sounded a bit cocky on my previous post and I apologize if I did. I do appreciate you sharing the data that you have meticulously gathered but I still feel it is not providing conclusive evidence as for you to say that these changes are 100% placebo. In fact you kind of confirm in the above post that these changes do in fact make some kind of impact.

Of all the changes the direct,controlled over threshold vs. stock incremental did the least impact per my observations. I kind of agree with you in this one after going through your findings.

The haldex increased traction option is the most contentious it seems. You mention that you see different kinds of descriptions from different groups and forums about this coding option and I see the same. I don't agree that the feedback and descriptions from all these groups should be the same because VW/Audi might have different tweaks per platform which would explain all the differences in what people feel. In my case my Atlas has no front wheel spin whatsoever after performing this coding change. Before the change I would guaranteed get some slight wheel spin on heavy throttle launches. I'm not saying anything about my butt dyno cause I have observed no change in acceleration performance, what I observe is a different haldex behavior which in fact feels like I have more traction.

My observation on this matter is very similar to lots of other observations posted on both VW and AUDI forums. Your data shows that the pump pressure over time remains the same but you do observe that you have better acceleration in your wagon with the haldex on the stock setting. This confirms that there is in fact a change. You are assuming it has to do with vibration control and it might be but I feel it's still inconclusive at this point. The fact is that neither you or myself are VW software engineers and we don't know the exact changes between the stock and increased traction option for the haldex.

I do agree with you that scientific data is solid evidence when compared with observation, which can be subjective. Having said that, observation data IS considered scientific data in itself. Even with logging data there might be some other factors that I feel have not been checked (not sure which factors either) therefore I don't think there can be a definitive conclusion on saying that it has to be placebo. Dismissing what a big sized population of VW/AUDI drivers have observed and calling it subjective feelings is not an objective statement in itself. Peace.
 

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No worries @Cuco . One other comment to your comment on the Haldex - maybe I should restate - I did not see any improvement in 60' or 0-60 times with the "increased traction" change. My best times over ~100 runs were all with the standard settings for everything that are commonly discussed as helping traction/launching/etc. So just really no change is all where you would expect as it's described. I do agree however that the only people that know for sure what these do are the engineers. There are some other changes in addition the acoustic measure to increased traction that are thought to help out (again, I don't believe it unless there is concrete data to prove it):

Under the AWD module adaptation: acoustic measure (gasoline) - change them all to "keine measure".

Under AWD module/long coding: max speed to suppress anti-droning action - change to 2nd gear (lowest)
min speed to suppress anti-droning action - change to 75km/h (highest)
Diff. lock - change to installed
Chassis - change to B class

I messed with it, logged it, and saw and felt zero difference. The guy I was working with thinks it helps in his manual R. Who knows. I got some of this info from a German forum that I translated.

I will agree to disagree with you on your last comment that me disregarding the subjective "feel" comments of folks online w/r to these changes being in itself not objective. What the subjective comments tell me is that these changes need to be tested and data collected to see what is going on which is what prompted me to do all of this in the first place. Science doesn't work that way - you collect measurable data especially on something as easy to do it on as a mechanical system like a car. Tests need to be v. controlled w/r to the variables to be able to say much and that's what I tried hard to do with the Haldex one(s). Anyway, good stuff and I always like the convo even if folks aren't convinced/agree with me.
 

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I don't understand any of this ! :eek:
Lots of Googling for "OBDEleven". Just a tool that allows you to make changes to your VWs systems for small things like lighting etc. Lots of fun and some of the changes are v. useful. I've got a master list stickied I think somewhere here. The Atlas FB groups are good as well, I've posted a lot of useful info there. There are some nice YouTube videos by shopdap.com that go into a bit of detail on what all this is. Finally, the Atlas forum on vwvortex has info. This is DIY-ville so you'll need to put in the time to learn.
 

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But I'd sure like to permanently eliminate that stupid Auto Engine Shut Off !!!
That is a popular change you can make, I can only confirm that the change that is commonly shown online to do this works on the 2018s, not sure about the newer models. Easier to just get used to it...that's what I did, doesn't bother me a bit and quite frankly, I like the quiet at stop lights.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I’ve done the shut off disable on my 2019 Atlas (voltage method). No change from 2018 models. I did try, in my defense, to live with it for over a year but it drove me nuts.
 

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That is a popular change you can make, I can only confirm that the change that is commonly shown online to do this works on the 2018s, not sure about the newer models. Easier to just get used to it...that's what I did, doesn't bother me a bit and quite frankly, I like the quiet at stop lights.

Not going to dispute this to be a welcome change, however, most if any dealers won't do it because according to them, "it's tampering with an emissions device on your car and is against federal law". Now that sounds like they quoted some obscure EPA rule or just don't want their hands slapped again (DieselGate). It's not there to "save you fuel", it's there to cut down on emissions and screwing around with anything thats there because of the clean air act, at least under Trump might be "ok" for now. But who knows after Nov so tread lightly. But as the owner, it's like tearing off those pesky labels on pillows and mattresses. You can do it at your own risk. But the dealer won't touch it and it could (I don't know for sure) screw up any emissions data the car might store if you live in a state that requires a tail pipe check. If they dedect you've messed with the system, who knows. I don't live on the Left coast so I'd not want to test those waters.

 
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